Austin Lugo: Before we get started this week, next week we're gonna be watching a Charlie Chaplin film. Andrew, you've never seen Modern Times, which seems like a pretty big, uh, hole to have. Is it just, have you never seen modern times?
Andrew Harp: You've never seen Jurassic Park? I arrest my case. .
Austin Lugo: So what? I guess that's fair. I've wa No, no.
It's just a weird one to not seen.
Andrew Harp: I mean, I went on a Charlie Chaplin tear, maybe like a few weeks ago, where I, I was watching a bunch of his shorter films, but it didn't, I, I wasn't able to follow through to all of his features. He's got so many of them. I kind of wanna like, you know, take my time with him.
Austin Lugo: Yeah. There's a lot to explore. It'll be fun. You'll like it. I think you'll be a Yeah, I'm sure will. A joyous time for all. Oh, here comes my cat. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. Anyways, so this week I wanted to pick a Christmas movie. Yeah. A Christmasy movie. And this was Christmasy Enough. I mean, it takes place during Christmas.
So you've seen this movie before. When did you first see this movie, Andrew?
Andrew Harp: This is a movie that I think I watched in like chunks when I was a kid, but I think it scared me. So it wasn't really like a movie that I loved. But I do remember it, like I do like remember like images and stuff from it. And then I've watched it like in full like, and as adult like last year or like a, like a year or two ago.
And then, yeah, so this is like the second time I've watched it in like, you know, the span of a couple
Austin Lugo: years. It's baffling to say who this movie was originally made for cause. I mean, it's a superhero movie, so it's kind of a kids movie, but it's also incredibly dark. It's pretty, it's pretty dark. It's pretty dark.
Last sexual tension,
Andrew Harp: the very beginning of the movie, parents try to kill a little baby . That's the opening of the movie. They try to kill a kid.
Austin Lugo: That's, that's pretty par for the course. I mean, you got your Harry Potter. Uh, That seems to be, uh, not too far, but it is. I mean, they do throw him into a dark sewer.
It's not great. And I guess they do trap him in a, they lock him in a box. It's very, uh, he's like Moses. Yeah. Some would say that Danny DeVito is a modern Moses. He's great. Dee DeVito is great in this, uh, it was a, uh, perfect casting choice in, in preparation for this, I did watch Batman 1980. Tim Burton. Tim Burton didn't direct the Batman Forever, correct?
Andrew Harp: No. The other Batman? No, no, he didn't do Batman forever. Batman and Robin. I don't even think he produced them or anything like that. They have similar Alet though. All these like early ones,
Austin Lugo: right? But Batman forever, that's part of the trilogy, right? That's still Michael Keaton as Michael Keaton? No. No.
Andrew Harp: So he only did these two.
Yes. Batman and I forever. Batman forever, I believe is Val. K. and Batman and Robin is George Clooney. Okay,
Austin Lugo: well I'm glad I didn't watch Batman forever because I wasn't gonna, I really didn't wanna watch it. I mean like,
Andrew Harp: yeah, if you just wanna like skip to the good stuff I guess. Like you could just,
Austin Lugo: oh, hey my cat speak Dick today.
Andrew Harp: He's on one. Yeah, that's crazy. He's excited. Well, I was just gonna say like, yeah, if you just wanna skip to the good stuff and then maybe don't watch Batman forever, but I, I'm partial. I'm, I'm, I kind of like it, it has like a ton of problems, like a lot of issues. There are too many villains. There's like a lot of villains in it.
This one, Batman Returns arguably has too many villains in it. Maybe, maybe a little bit, but I think it's fine. I think it's the right, I think it's a fine amount, but Batman Forever has like way too many and has other problems as well. But I think it's worth watching just because it's like kind of kooky looking.
Okay. But I think the best out of all these Batman movies at that time is this one. Batman
Austin Lugo: Returns. I'm a big Batman fan singing a lot of Batman films. I've obviously
Andrew Harp: seen them. That's crazy. You haven't seen any of these though? I didn't really know that. You didn't see any of. . Yeah. I don't know. It was just kind of off.
They're always on streaming.
Austin Lugo: They're always on streaming. They're really easy to find. I think it's because like I wasn't very partial to Tim Burton until recently. Cause I didn't like his newer stuff, so I never got around to it. And you know, I'd never heard anything good about Batman forever. Batman, Robin.
So those were never on the list. I have long one to see the Adam West Batman, but
Andrew Harp: Oh yeah, the movie.
Austin Lugo: I haven't seen that one. I also learned recently that the original Batman movie was made in 1943. I didn't know there was a Batman movie that old,
Andrew Harp: I didn't know that either. I'm guessing it's like, um, like a guy wearing like pajamas or something like that.
I, I've
Austin Lugo: seen like a couple of like, still images and it's, I've heard it's not very good, but it's probably the first superhero movie. I mean, 1943, that's pretty early. I can't think of a, a superhero movie that came. Before 1943.
Andrew Harp: Er, BU Buster Keaton's a superhero. .
Austin Lugo: Yeah. But he's just a buster. He's just a superhero in real life.
He's just a real life superhero. Yeah,
Andrew Harp: that's true. You know, you got, you gotta watch all the Batman movies for sure. Especially since the most recent one was pretty good. And yeah, like I said, Batman and Robin and Batman forever, they're not great movies, but like that doesn't mean that they're not worth watching
Austin Lugo: at least once.
Watching this eulogy was a very fun experience. I loved Batman 1989, a lot more than I thought I would. I do some problems with it, but Jack Nicholson, I think is the best joker. I think he's better than Heath Ledger. I think he's better than Paul Dano. He's better than even the great Jared Leto.
Andrew Harp: This is a very contrarian opinion, but a lot of people do have it.
A lot of people do feel the same way that you. Even though it is like weirdly
Austin Lugo: contrarian, I mean Jack Nicholson really goes all out in it, like in the performance. He really doesn't have to go all out. And I think he gives a great performance. You got Prince doing the music for the first one. That's great.
But I like the music here too. The music here is here. It's good too. Uh, they got the classic, I guess I didn't realize that the Batman like music is. It's always kind of the same. I don't know, like where that originates from. I don't know if that originates from, you
Andrew Harp: mean, you mean the little theme that goes Doo?
Do
Austin Lugo: do. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. . Is that just something that's always kind of
Andrew Harp: thing? I don't know. Maybe it's like from a TV show or something like that. Maybe.
Austin Lugo: I don't know. It's great though. I mean, it's, it's, it's a little dark foreboding, but it's fun. I think Michael Keaton is a pretty all right.
Bruce Wayne, I don't necessarily think he's a bad Batman. I think my complaint with these movies about Batman is. Mostly to do with the suit because like he looks
Andrew Harp: a little weird, which I, I don't know. It's not really a complaint, but I see where you're coming from for, it's not a complaint for me, but I
Austin Lugo: see where you're coming from.
I mean, like it looks fine. It's a bit rubbery. Yeah. Which isn't like a big deal, but my complaint is because the suit is so rubbery, Michael Keaton can't really fight in it. And so there's very few scenes in either of the films where he actually does any hand-to-hand combat and he can't really act.
Michael
Andrew Harp: Ke. While he is in the suit. Yeah, yeah. There's
Austin Lugo: there's not much he can do. No. It's just like the suit is so constricting that there's almost like no movement. Right. He's kind of like a statue that kind of just has to turn his whole body whenever he's Yeah. Fighting. And so the, all the fight scenes in both of them, wherever there's just like, you know, hand-to-hand combat is.
Pretty lame. I like the
Andrew Harp: one where he's fighting all the people in the, um, in the street, the snowy street next to all like the store windows. I really like that one where you have like the flame thrower guy. I like that scene. That scene's really great. Like basically the opening fight scene, like that shit is awesome.
Um, but yeah, I guess I can't really think much of other fights in the movie, but I
Austin Lugo: think the reason that scene works and any of, and any of the good feist scenes work is. , and I don't know why they don't do this more, but in these two Batman movies, he has the best gadgets out of any of the Batman movies.
Like he's got just all these cool like little gadgets and things that he can do. He's yeah, he's got crazy shit. Yeah. And this Batman, I mean, he doesn't give a fuck, he drops a man into a, a VAD of Yeah,
Andrew Harp: it's dark. It's it's a little darker. Yeah.
Austin Lugo: He's lighting people on fire. He is blowing people up like this.
He's blowing them up. He doesn't give shit. He's just murdering people left and. Like, no morals on the sky. . It's
Andrew Harp: great. Yeah, he rocks. I like when he, yeah, he blows up a guy. It's like, oh yeah. He, he killed someone. Yeah. Yeah. He kills people in the movie. That's cool. He, he blows 'em
Austin Lugo: up. Straight up. Murder. I love how, uh, the circus freaks of the second one.
It somehow feels, it doesn't make any
Andrew Harp: sense, but like, it's great. They look
Austin Lugo: great. I love that the second film feels a lot more Tim Burton than the first one. Like the first one feels a little tame in a lot of ways. I mean, again, you know, Jack, it feels a little generic. Yes, it feels generic and gray. Gray, where this one feels kind of like they kind of just let term Burton be Tim Burton.
I mean, it feels very much, you know, the way the city's designed all of the characters, the circus freaks and the opening act and just throughout it, great costume design. I mean, Spectacular costume designs. A lot of cool, like murder gadgets and killer stuff. I love all of the little henchmen in this. I think they are a blast and just look, they look wonderful and are absolutely insane.
Andrew Harp: That's probably the best part of the movie for me, really honestly. Like that's kind of like why you watch that. I really look the vibe in. Um, Yeah, just like the vibe and the aesthetic that Tim Burton really like pushes forward in the movie where he really probably didn't have to. But no, I really, really just love kind of like, kind of like the kind of, you know, what is it called, like the German expressionist kind of thing.
And I love the, the opener of the movie as we discussed. It looks amazing like in the mansion and they go to the park and the park looks all creepy and weird and like with the bridge, Yeah, I just feel like everything in everyone and you know, just everything is basically made outta sets, which is fine because it looks, everything looks kind of constructed and like it was put together by people.
Like I said, I love that set with where he is fighting, love the, uh, clowns. Um, I'm assuming that's trying to like, make a statement where it's like the, it's like around Christmas time and all the shops and stores are getting blown up and stuff like that. I'm assuming that's trying to make a statement, but I love that stuff too.
All that stuff like comes together really well and has a very, uh, a clear. You know, image for me, I think
Austin Lugo: the city's design in Batman, 1989, they use a lot of mats and a lot of manures, which is very Tim Burton. You know, he loves his miniatures, he loves his mats. I think in the original one, it's kind of just unassuming, like, it just looks like, you know, just like a, a big city.
Where in this one, the design of Gotham is very specific. I love the look of Christopher Walk. Like whatever the name of his company is. I don't know exactly what he does, but you know, like the
Andrew Harp: cat, his name is Shrek, by the way. His last name is Shrek.
Austin Lugo: Yes. I don't know how you could forget that. It's a little distracting.
It's just a little bit, but I love, uh, the design of his, it's like a cat thing. You know what I'm talking about? It almost looks like, like that 1940s cartoon. Do you know what I'm talking about? The animation? Like that cat animation for the 1940s? Yeah. Felix the cat, Felix, the. . Yeah, it's very similar vibes.
It's creepy as fuck. Yep. And like the statues that are, uh, like similar to like Atlas, you know, they're kinda like all. Metal and like, yeah, there's
Andrew Harp: a lot of like, what's it called, like objectiveness, like, uh, statues and like, uh, architecture in it as well. I like that stuff a lot too. That stuff like really adds to the vibe.
Austin Lugo: And I think the, you know, the snowy Christmasy thing just brings the whole thing together and it's so, it's like always nighttime and this Batman movie, like, it's almost never daytime in this one. I think in the first one there's a lot more daytime stuff than this one. It's, it's almost all night, all night.
Andrew Harp: This is a good point. I didn't really think about that. It's pretty much all night long. The whole movie is just completely at night. Yeah. I guess that helps when you're, you know, trying to, you know, light things, you know, kind of keep everything the same.
Austin Lugo: Yeah, I think it works. I mean, he is, you know, he's Batman.
He is a man of the night, as it were. I didn't know Christopher Walken was in this movie until I started watching it. So it, when I saw his name pop up, I, I got pretty excited. He looks a little weird. He looks a little funny. He does, he's got like a. Mozart kind of hairstyle going on in like the first half of the movie.
Yeah,
Andrew Harp: he does. Yeah, he play, he basically plays the evil
Austin Lugo: c e o, just the classic evil. And for some reason the guy who plays his son puts on like a Christopher Walkin like accent. It's great almost, which is. That's great. I mean, it's fine. It's a, it's an interesting choice. But , I mean, Christopher Wakin, like this song sounds great.
Yeah. Christopher Watkins, classic evil guy. And, uh, after he gets kidnapped, we get to finally get to meet the penguin, right? They spend the whole like first, what, 15, 20 minutes kind of, uh, suggesting the penguin, you know, throwing him over the bridge and the sewers and all that kind of stuff. But it's not until Christopher Walken gets to meet the penguin in one of the most disturbing looking zoos.
In the world, is the zoo supposed to be like closed, like permanently closed? Is that the idea or is it just like, that's just what the zoo looks like in Gotham City?
I
Andrew Harp: don't know. Like are you talking about the one with the penguins?
Austin Lugo: Yeah, because it's a whole zoo. Like there it's,
Andrew Harp: I thought it was just like an abandoned like place where a bunch of penguins live.
No,
Austin Lugo: no. Like when they like pull in, it says like zoo and then like it goes through like a whole, yeah. I guess it. There's like a giant like crab looking thing and like all these different exhibits, I mean, I guess there's no animals other than the penguins. So I think you're right. It just must be some sort of abandoned Gotham suit.
I like that he's
Andrew Harp: raised by penguins. Like
Austin Lugo: I said, pretty up on my Batman galore. I mean, I, I think it's fi I think it's great. Uh, this is the first iteration where I've seen the, literally raised by actual pink ones, which, hey, you. It works.
Andrew Harp: The penguin is a, is a tragic, it's, he's, he's tra he's a tragic villain.
His whole life
Austin Lugo: sucks . It's very, uh, depressing. I love his umbrellas though. He's got all kinds of cool, uh, umbrella
Andrew Harp: gadgets. Yeah. His, his shit is awesome.
Austin Lugo: Yeah, he's got like a knife one. He's got one that's like a blow torch. He's got a helicopter one. He's got one that's a gun. Sh one of
Andrew Harp: the shoots. I think
Austin Lugo: they should give him more umbrellas, honestly.
Like I would, I'd go for, there
Andrew Harp: would've been more, yeah, just an infinitem amount. He has ones that make him fly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Austin Lugo: All this shit. So obviously like some of the penguins are just like people dressed in. Penguin costumes. Yeah. But, but there's also real penguins, right? Because Yeah, like,
Andrew Harp: especially this, I think the ones where they have them, the rock where they put the rockets on them and they're walking around.
Those are real penguins for sure. Yeah.
Austin Lugo: It's a lot of penguins. How do you, how do you think you coordinate all those penguins? How do you coordinate a penguin? How
Andrew Harp: do you train a pink? It's probably really difficult. They, they, they seem kind of difficult to me, but I don't know. I mean,
Austin Lugo: it's great. Yeah. I love it.
I love the penguins, just like walls
Andrew Harp: around everywhere. Yeah. I like Penguin overall. Yeah. Once again, I think for me, the movie's all about the villains, especially Catwoman in Penguin. I think they're good villains in this. They're very, they look great. They have really good actors associated with them. I love the intro.
You get the intro. This movie doesn't really like harp too much on Batman. It does. You know, because I think the villains reveal things about Batman that are interesting, but it's less like, you know, less like you don't see a scene where Batman's parents get killed or anything like that. Like it's a return of Batman, not like an introduction to him.
So there's not like, we get the idea, right? Like we get, we get it. Like everyone knows who Batman was. Yeah, like we have, you know, all that shit. He's got a bad cave and he hangs out. You know, it's like all that shit we know. And then it is mostly focuses on the villains, which I think is good cuz, and I think they're the more interesting part of the movie as well.
You know, just from a character and story basis.
Austin Lugo: What's really interesting about this film, That differentiates itself from most of the Batman films I've seen and, you know, TV shows and stuff is this Batman movie really isn't about Batman, Batman's almost kind of a side character in this film. I mean, I think he takes up less time than our other two villains or, or main characters, I guess you could say in this film.
Like, I mean, between the Penguin and Catwoman and, uh, Shrek, Batman's not actually in the movie all that much and the. Isn't really his like, it's not like a Batman story. It's more of like a penguin story or a Catwoman story, and he's just kind of almost on the sidelines, which I don't think is a bad thing at all.
And I think that was the right choice with this film because honestly, this version of Batman isn't given a whole lot to kind of be, you know, there's not like a whole lot behind him. Like they're just like, he's a. His parents are dead and you know, he likes bats. They're, it's not like a whole lot more that they explore.
I do like this version of Alfred, though. I very much enjoy the actor who plays Alfred. I think he's great. I think he's in the other two. Really? Yeah. Good for him. I think he's a very good Alfred. I'm a, I'm a big fan. Yeah, he
Andrew Harp: rocks. He's, he's really good. Yeah. I, I, I agree. I like him as well. And I mean, I'm a really big fan of like, uh, Michelle Pfeiffer as a Catwoman.
You're introduced to her because you're, you, you're introduced to Shrek and his stuff is kind of like the center of the movie story-wise. Right? He has like a board meeting with like, well, he has like a meeting with, uh, the mayor of Gotham and he's just kind of a. Shrek is upset because he wants to build a power plan.
And they're like, why do we need another power plan? Like, we're good. Like, we don't need another. And he's like, he's like, uh, and mayor's like, okay, whatever. Bye. And you're introduced to Michelle Pfeiffer, s Shreks, uh, or you know, uh, sele, uh, Selena, Kyle. Yeah. The executive assistant. She's a little bubbling up, um, bumbling, you know, she's kind of like dropping stuff and you know, she's interrupting the meaning or whatever, and wearing glasses.
Yeah, and, and I love her. I love all of her scenes, especially her transformation scenes, like when she first goes to her apartment. I love that when she goes into her apartment, she walks in and she like talks to herself because she's extremely lonely. I would say that loneliness is a, a theme of the movie Isolation.
I find it very funny, but, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's part of the movie when like they open the bat signal. and it cuts to Bruce Wayne and he is just sitting in his shirt like this. Looks great though. He, yeah, he's got all his like black turtleneck and I think he's wearing a black jacket. He's got his glasses.
He clearly doesn't have like a girlfriend anymore. The first, no, they just got this rec conter. You're just like sit. He's just like sitting there in his chair and he looks up and he is like, oh, it's the best . So like what happens if he's in? He's doing
Austin Lugo: nothing, any other room of the house because the bat signal only goes into that realm.
But he is got a whole fucking mans. So is he just supposed to, I think
Andrew Harp: he can just see it out the window probably, right? I guess because it just shines up in the sky. Yeah,
Austin Lugo: but he always looking out the window. Well, I guess if you're that lonely, you know, got a whole lot going on. Just seems like there should be a better system.
He's
the
Andrew Harp: Batman. He's up at night. He's like a night guy I guess. Yeah.
Austin Lugo: But like is he just sit at the window all night waiting for the bat signal to
Andrew Harp: go off? Maybe he has like, he lives in a mansion. He has really big windows. Maybe . I'm just, I'm destroying your points, Austin. I'm destroying them all. I'm eliminating your theory, but yeah, like I said, there's that scene where he is like beating up everybody.
He's beating up at these guys that like show up at like a, at a mayor speech, right? They're
Austin Lugo: lighting the Christmas tree, so the mayor's there, shreks there. Everyone's there. I love,
Andrew Harp: I love the Christmas fives in the movie by the way. It's got a nice dark Christmas vibe. It really is a Christmas movie and it's like one of the best ones, honestly, with all the Christmas lights and like decorations and the snowy like streets and stuff and everyone's like wearing coats and all that.
And I don't know, it's, it's, I love it.
Austin Lugo: Great Christmas vibes. And as you were saying, Michelle Pfeiffer is a great crap woman. I mean, in the first She rocks quarter of the movie where she's, you know, the kind of bumbling secretary. I love haller scenes. She's like, of this very well developed, a little kooky, but like a fun, you know, kind character.
She's fun. And when, uh, Christopher Walken Shrek pushes her out the window, she becomes an absolutely insane person and I'm. That she is reanimated. She's just a reanimated corpse by cats. She's just a cat at this point when she's murdered. She's been
Andrew Harp: given the power of the, she's been given the power of the, uh, the cat and yeah, like all these cats.
Have you ever seen the Catwoman movie? I've
Austin Lugo: seen a lot of people talk about the Catwoman movie. I've never gone outta my way
Andrew Harp: to watch. . I've probably seen that movie like more times than Why some movies that I love. Why? I don't know, it's like not a good movie, but it's very interesting and kind of fun and funny.
The CGI is really bad and the music is bad, and I don't know, it's just a fun movie to watch. Like it's just, it's, it's fun, but it's not a good movie. It's like a really bad movie and it's like, has the exact same plot. This Catwoman Batman Returns where she like works at a company and she finds out they're about to do something bad and then she gets, like, she, she attempts to get murdered and then a bunch of cats show up and they give her the powers and all of a sudden she has like a kind of like a different personality and stuff.
And I don't know if I would recommend Catwoman, but uh, if you, if, if you wanna have fun, I would check it out. But this is obviously the best Catwoman. It's also much better than the. The, uh, Batman, uh, what? I can't think of the name,
Austin Lugo: isn't it? The Darken Knight raises
Andrew Harp: Yes. Better than Anne Hathaway, right?
Yeah. One sucks. That one sucks. That's a, this one rocks. It's so good. I love when she, um, when she gets pushed and, you know, she dies cuz she gets pushed because she's about to find out that like, he's not building a, he doesn't want to build a power plane. He wants to build like a power sucker. So like,
Austin Lugo: Take power for No.
Like real reason other than just to have power. Yeah. He
Andrew Harp: just loves it. Like he's just, I think it's just kind of like a, like a thing to say about people like Shrek, right? Like people who, th that's kind of their, I think he says like, it's my life purpose. Right? Like to, yeah. His legacy Just take. His legacy is to just cons, to accumulate as much power as possible by any means necessary.
He's a true villain of the movie, but lo when she arrives in her apartment and it's kind of like the same, she does like the same things that she does when she arrives the first time earlier that night, but she's completely different. And what culminates is like one of the B really a great room trashing scene.
Really good.
Austin Lugo: Yeah. Stuff's all over. Stuffed animals down the. Garbage disposal. Cats are fucking running around. She's got this like iron cat skillet that she's fucking breaking the walls. Throwing at mirrors.
Andrew Harp: Yeah, she goes nuts. It's so good.
Austin Lugo: Whenever she's Catwoman catwoman, quote unquote, they make her skin like super pale, which is a very temperant thing.
Like all the bad guys always have like super pale skin and you have like Victorian era, right? Fucking like, you know, she's got this great scar going running along her. It's great. She's got, she's got spray paint somehow and just fucking blacking out everything. And of course she already has, uh, this leather coat in which she turns into the, the famous cat woman's suit.
Andrew Harp: I love the cat woman's suit. Look, you know, it, it, it's hot suit, you know, it's a, she's got the, I believe that this movie didn't do well because people thought it was too dark and sexual. And I believe also it led to problems with like marketing partners. Oh shit. Cause they're just like, they're like, it's too sexy.
It's too sexy. They're like, it's too, it's too much for us. Like it's too dark, it's too weird.
Austin Lugo: We love it, but I can see
Andrew Harp: why it's a unique, it's a unique suit and it's like, obviously Pink Thankly put together.
Austin Lugo: Yeah. It, it looks great. And I love that final scene in that whole trashing where she's standing in the window and, you know, you got that pink neon, uh, hell's here?
Yeah.
Andrew Harp: Yeah. Sign. Yeah. Like a very weird looking sign by the way. It's like something that, like, I feel like somebody made like a, like an artist that Tim Burton likes or something.
Austin Lugo: Such a great scene, but I can understand why marketers were frustrated by this film because as we've been saying, who the film is for is kind of confusing because you know, you would think a superhero movie is for, especially at this point, right?
It's for kids. Even though Batman 1989. Still is only kind of kid ish. I mean, it, it's, yeah, it's more generic. So like a kid could definitely watch Batman Begins, but like if you showed a kid this movie, I mean you, like you said, when you saw as a kid, it's, it's fucking scary. It's a scary, it's a genuinely scary movie.
I mean, Danny DeVito is Batman, but it at
Andrew Harp: least it elicits an A reaction rather than just being another generic superhero
Austin Lugo: movie. Yeah. But marketers don't want reactions. They just want, they want their money, man. They just want people to go see it and buy their shit.
Andrew Harp: But that's why this movie's one of the best
Austin Lugo: ones, I would say.
Of all the Batman movies I've seen. It's probably has the most character and the most original in the sense that like, you know, it's very aour, right? It's, it's very Tim Burton. Like, they just kind of let Tim Burton do his thing, which is great. I mean, the fact that they let him do his thing, which is, I guess part of the reason why they don't really let, uh, superhero movies do that now is because, I mean,
Andrew Harp: this movie is very well known and everybody loves it, but it really didn't make that much money, you know?
And at the end of the day, like that's the ultimate crime, .
Austin Lugo: I love Danny DeVito's shape in this movie. Like not just his face and his
Andrew Harp: nose, but like his, we haven't even really talked about him yet. Yeah, no, not really. He, he is so good. One of the greatest villain performances. I think The Catwoman is also one of the greatest villains performances.
But you know, Danny DeVito's, I would say his performance is transformative.
Austin Lugo: He goes all out, he's got the fucking flipper. To give him the nose. He's what he was talking about, his full . He's just a fucking insane person. I mean, just completely insane in this movie. Just off the rails, like he acts exactly like you would think.
A person who's been raised by penguins would act, I mean, just bonkers to the degree, you know, has no. Ability to socialize with anyone. All the scenes are great. He's wonderful. He's got this weird like ache shaped body with just like these tiny little legs and these tiny little arms. So disturbing. And he is got these super like black teeth.
He's terrified of the light. Like
Andrew Harp: charcoal in his mouth or something? Yeah. All of his plans fail horribly. Everything fails for him.
Austin Lugo: You know, you could almost argue he's not so much a villain as just kind of. Tragic character in the film because honestly, like the Penguin is almost always at the whim of our other characters, right?
He's always kind of being either pushed around by like, even though like at the beginning, you know, he kind of captures Shrek and you know, tells him what to do. Like Shrek immediately kind of gets a handle on him and. You know, basically place him for
Andrew Harp: what, right? Yeah. He starts to, like, he's, he starts to think how he could use
Austin Lugo: him, because Christopher Walken is the evil mastermind behind the whole thing.
You know, the evil CEO E O who wants controlled the city and is willing to just do whatever it takes, and Pink wind is kind of just, you know, so obsessed with, I mean, as you kind of point out this sense of loneliness. And just wanting to be loved or to be seen is manipulated by, uh, Shrek, who doesn't give a shit about anybody or anything.
He's just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have more power just for the sake of having power.
Andrew Harp: Well, also Penguin is Al is also blackmailing him and they cook up this thing where like, the penguin is going to like, kind of make himself a hero. in the eyes of like the city. So they do a thing where they like fake, take the mayor's baby.
And then penguin like
Austin Lugo: fakes immediately saves him like within 10 seconds he like floats
Andrew Harp: up out of the sewer. It's like, why? How's he floating up out of the sewer? It doesn't matter. They're just like, oh fuck, that's cool. And yeah, everybody goes crazy and they're like, yo, penguin, he's a hero. And he is like, yes.
And he's like, no. Most. Horrible looking person of all time, and they're like, he's a hero. It's like, no, like
Austin Lugo: he's scary . He's a very evil looking person. Like, you know what? Good for the people of Gotham to just be so caring and loving and just to me, and really be like, this is a good guy.
Andrew Harp: I mean, I think that's just more, they're gullible, but I mean, I guess there's two ways of looking at it.
Austin Lugo: they're a little global. That's fair. I mean, this guy looks like a fucking crazy person. And despite that, they're like, you know what? He looks disgusting. They're gonna give him a chance, they're gonna love him. He's gonna be like the local hero. I mean, that's, that's great. Good for him. Good for, good for the penguin.
I think he's really, I mean, he's doing his best. . Yeah. And I
Andrew Harp: think, yeah, after that they, well, after that he, yeah. And then, and of course Batman, you know, because he is not gullible is like, oh, okay,
Austin Lugo: something wrong here. He,
Andrew Harp: he looks, Hmm, there's something wrong. this like very freakish looking guy is like,
Austin Lugo: not what he seems to be.
Andrew Harp: Yeah. And then he like, of course he like investigates and then he like, I think he finds out that like, yeah, penguin is like the leader of like the Red Pyramid gang. Like he's a gangster. I
Austin Lugo: love the look of the bat cave in this film cuz they just give him, I mean, it's just a fucking cave. And they got like these deep cavernous, not a very useful cave.
Like I don't know how one traverses this cave because there's just like these giant gaps that I guess you just have to like jump over and shit. But I love it. It's like super dark and it looks really wet. Like the cave just looks wet. The whole time. And he is got his fucking like, giant computer, you know, his back computer.
It's fun. And Alfred's, you know, running around. And did you ever notice that in all of these movies, the only thing anyone ever eats is soup. Like, there's a lot of soup in these movies. Maybe it's
Andrew Harp: just easy to make on set. They're just like, fuck
Austin Lugo: it. Uh, here just saying like, Swan's always eating soup. Like he's fucking, like, that's all he ever.
he's on the
Andrew Harp: all soup diet . He doesn't eat anything else but soup. He also has a champagne. He's on a champagne and soup diet. He only drinks champagne and you only eat soup. They probably eat other foods in the first movie. Right. They have like that party and
Austin Lugo: the only thing I ever see Bruce Wayne eat is soup.
I mean, there might be other things, but I only ever eat c m eat soup. There's a lot of soup. I'm just saying, of all the movies I've seen, this one probably has, I, I guess it doesn't have the most soup, but it definitely, it's up there. As far as soup goes, there's, there's just a lot. Soup going on, and I don't quite understand why.
Oh, it's also winter.
Andrew Harp: It's also wintertime. Yeah, but he gets cold soup. That's a good point. He gets the cold soup. That's, I forgot what the joke, where like he gets the soup and he's like, it's cold. It's like it's supposed to be cold. Bruce Wayne
Austin Lugo: doesn't have
Andrew Harp: shit. He's a fucking idiot. , you see, you have like penguin and Shrek and they're running a monk.
and like, yeah, like they do this thing where like penguin like pretends to go to like his grave, his parents' grave and be like, oh my God, my parents, what he really, what he really wanted to do was get like a bunch of names from like the hall of records and while they're all doing this, of course you have like, uh, sele and Kyle's Catwoman, she's also going nuts.
She's like running around town. She's beating up people. And, uh, she's, uh, getting into fights with Batman as well. Doing lots of back flips. Doing lots of back flips. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, the cat power is like, I think they give her like nine lives as we see later in the movie, which is kind of funny. So she's like kind of invincible a little bit and, uh, she has like a really good with a whip and she's like, you know, she's has like, She's like lot of flexibility and I think strength.
I think there's one scene where she like punches like a metal door or something like that. like she's like super strong for some reason and there's really, really, there's only one scene where she goes and Burg rolls a place.
Austin Lugo: Yeah, there's a serious lack of burgling of Cat. Burger. Burger. She doesn't steal a lot of stuff.
Andrew Harp: I guess the one scene is just good enough. I don't know why we would need to. I mean, I don't know.
Austin Lugo: Doesn't matter. She's just out to, she's, she's fucking insane. She's just a crazy
Andrew Harp: person out. Yeah, she's, yeah, she's on one. Tim
Austin Lugo: Burton loves to use the, that one lens that has like the dual focus in the front, in the, in the back.
He uses it a lot in this film. I mean, you know, it's a good effect. I mean, whenever you see it, it's always kind of a surreal. Almost kind of disturbing image, especially like when you have like the penguin in the front just looking awful and hideous. And I love his costume too, like the top hat and the fur coat.
Andrew Harp: Yeah, good
Austin Lugo: costume looks great. He's got like his like super dirty gray. Long underwear, . I don't even know.
Andrew Harp: Hey, he's wearing, they're like long. I think they're They're long Johns. Yeah,
Austin Lugo: they're long Johns. Yeah. But he's got like a little tie to go with
Andrew Harp: it. Yeah, he's got like ties. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like wearing a suit, like, he's like, he's like wearing a suit without pants and a jacket basically.
Yeah. Like he, yeah, everything looks soiled and disgusting. So gross. He's so good. And, and Shrek, he's like, you know what, you should be mayor.
Austin Lugo: This is the gud one for mayor.
Andrew Harp: Yeah. Penguin. I guess like has now accumulated enough like clout. That everyone's like, oh yeah, yeah, you should, uh, that Shrek is just kind of like, because Shrek I think just wants to do this power plant project.
Yeah. He just wants to do his ply power plant project. And Bruce Wayne and the mayor are like pushing against him. So if Penguin his mayor, he'll go what he wants cuz he his sway with him. Um, and penguin's like, oh yeah, being the mayor would be kind of cool. Beat
Austin Lugo: up. I love that scene where they take him down the stairs of like his crummy cobble pot.
Mansion, right? And the top floor is like total archaic, gross. And he walks down the stairs, you know, eating a fish like this raw fish and just chomping down on it. And they've turned his, like the bottom half of his house into basically just like a campaign office. Like, just like a lights and all. And it's got, I love the, the signage in this, the like campaign signs.
They have the, like those like 1920s metropolis kind. Vibes to it. Very cool Signage. He likes
Andrew Harp: sexually assaults a woman and bites a
Austin Lugo: man's nose off. Well, I don't know if it's off, but he definitely bites the man's nose and they still want him to run. Yeah.
Andrew Harp: They're like, yeah, you gotta do it. Because they love him.
They, he's so nice. He's so great.
Austin Lugo: Christopher Walken does the Nixon thing. I love that
Andrew Harp: he does the Nixon thing. He loves when, yeah, Christopher walkin, he kind of disappears in the movie for a minute, but then he shows back up later. I think. Oh, and also another detail that's worth mentioning through all of this stuff is that Bruce Wayne and Selena Kyle, they begin dating cuz they meet is weird.
Austin Lugo: Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of that part of them
Andrew Harp: dating. Yeah, I think it's fine. I
Austin Lugo: mean, it's fine. I'm, I don't like dislike and necessarily, it's just, well,
Andrew Harp: if you didn't like 'em together, guess what? They didn't get together so you're, so I guess
Austin Lugo: it all worked out. It's just like a weird. I don't know because like, you know, at night she's catwoman this like insane person, but then like sometimes she's not, which I guess is like, but that's what Batman is, right?
Yeah. So like it's. . It is like a nice,
Andrew Harp: they're like one and the same. That's why they're attracted to each other. They're like the same.
Austin Lugo: I get it. I guess it's fine actually. You know, I don't, well, if you have a problem, it's okay. I'm just, yeah. But like, I don't have like real reason, I mean, all the scenes with them together is fine too.
So maybe my only problem is it, I feel like it takes too long for them to figure out who they are. Like it's, it seems pretty obvious to me that, I mean, I guess like Bruce Wayne is Batman. Like, okay, maybe that's hard to find out, but like it's very clear. That's Selena. Kyles is is Catwoman and it takes, it takes Bruce Wayne too long and it sure as hell takes Christopher walkin.
It takes Shrek way too long to figure it out. Like it's not until like the last moments that he figures it out. Yeah,
Andrew Harp: it takes a while, but. Once again, these things, they're just superhero things. Yeah, it's fine. I'm willing to look past it. But anyway, I like their little conversations that they have with each other.
Once again, I think they're like one in the same kind of at this point. So like they have like interesting things to, uh, say to each other. I like all that stuff. I think also you get to the, they Kidn the ice Princess, right? You got Oswald and Catwoman because, well, they frame Batman, they make a Batman.
Think that he, people think that he kill, , uh, the ice Princess, but they actually kidnapped her. And so Batman is able to get in and find her, and then they have this little fight and then , and then the penguin pushes her off, which that's kind of a scary scene when she gets pushed off and he fucking murders her.
And she falls. You see her like fall, like
Austin Lugo: land? Yeah. Land on that box and the tree lights up, and then the fucking bats complain everywhere. It's a pretty fucking brutal scene.
Andrew Harp: And then, and then he tries to kill a cat. ,
Austin Lugo: I think trains called Cat one. Poor Catwoman. She is, you know, she's trying to make, uh, she's trying to make alliances.
She keeps getting killed, . And they just keep, just keep fucking murdering her. Everyone just
Andrew Harp: keeps killing her. Yeah, it's kind of sad. It's like, you know, she's like the one like, kind of like, you know, lead woman character and it's like everybody keeps killing her. Even in our hero,
Austin Lugo: poor Catwoman, she's, she just wants to do her thing.
I mean, her mission is clear in the sense that obviously she wants to fucking, you know, destroy Shrek and his company. But the way she goes about it is, is very chaotic. Which I mean, like, you know, she's a very chaotic character. So it's funny, I I, I love the way the manner looks though, like I think. , Bruce Wayne's manner is great.
Yeah. Like how he's never in like most of the rooms, like he's only ever in one room, so I guess it works. I guess it works that he is never, cause they try to eat again. They try to eat soup in the what? Fucking like some sort of dining room thing. And he just, he's not about it. They gotta fucking eat their soup somewhere else.
They still eat the soup for some reason.
Andrew Harp: I think Selena, Kyle even says like, you know, kind of, I think she makes a comment about like how like big and stupid his house is. They're
Austin Lugo: sitting at that super long table, like, uh, just obnoxiously far away. He has to like walk across the table to pass her the salt.
That's a great scene. . That's in the first
Andrew Harp: movie. Is it? They're thinking in the first movie. They don't, I don't even think they eat in the second movie. In the second movie, they just hang out on the couch and kiss. You're
Austin Lugo: right. Those scenes are very similar.
Andrew Harp: I'm guessing you watch 'em back to back. Yeah. .
Austin Lugo: So, okay, that's fine.
There's some moments. I do love the scene though, where they, they both have to run away cause Right, they got their secret identities, and they're trying to explain to Alfred. Yeah, that's funny. Like, what's going on? I gotta. Oh, I gotta go too. , Alfred has to think of a dirty Limerick. I love
Andrew Harp: it. This version of Alfred is great.
He's actually in it a lot. I, I, he's in the other movies. I feel like he's plays even. I feel like he has more lines in the other
Austin Lugo: movies. That's awesome. I love him. He's great. And then them, like right after they, they leave, they do that scene where like they get dressed into their costumes. So like Batman just has.
A room of just similar rubber Batman costumes. I think that's a bat cave. Yeah, I know it's the bat cave, but it's like
Andrew Harp: he's got, he's gotta have more than one. It's like the Iron Man suits.
Austin Lugo: Yeah. But those are all like, all different, like these are all exactly the
Andrew Harp: same. Maybe they're a little bit different in some way.
Like maybe ones for like, uh, swimming. Maybe another one is we're going into cold climb. I don't know. Like I'm just, that's what I was hoping for,
Austin Lugo: right? Like he's like going through and he is got like a fucking like, you know, secret. I don't know. Stealth mode one, and he is got one for like fucking fly in and all these different things, but it's fine.
The suits, like I said, not my favorite suits. They are a bit too rubbery for me personally. Like they're very, they're pretty stiff. Pretty stiff. I mean, obviously there's
Andrew Harp: no Z Michael look a little stiff.
Austin Lugo: But it's fine. The Catwoman suit is
Andrew Harp: great though. Yeah. The Catwoman suit is great and yeah, penguin looks great.
I like the scene where they, uh, they bomb, they, uh, put a bomb on his car and he has to drive around. I like how he, like, he almost hits all the, he hits all those people
Austin Lugo: with Theat mode. He murders all of those people. He, he
Andrew Harp: runs over all the people. Yeah, cuz he can't control it anymore. It's not in the control of Penguin.
I like when he is controlling the Batmobile and it zooms out to the end and it's like moving around a lot because he is Yeah. .
Austin Lugo: He's in like a little, uh, carnival. Right? It's like a carnival, right? It's like, like those little quarter little car things. Yeah. It's like a quarter ride
Andrew Harp: thing. Yeah. . And he's like using that to pilot the, uh, BAT mobile.
And he is like also talking to Batman, like through his car, licking his car screen. And he is just like, ah ha are you fucking idiot?
Austin Lugo: Batman puts in a DVD or a cd. A cd. . And you're
Andrew Harp: like, why is he doing that? He about to play, like, uh, he's about to play his favorite music. He's about to play, uh, uh, uh, Dr. J Chronic on, in the, in the car while he's, uh, being, while the penguin is, uh, murdering
Austin Lugo: people just slaughtering.
Andrew Harp: You're just like, what the fuck is he doing that? But yeah, that, that seems pretty fun. Of course, Batman is able to deter the situation and Penguin gets upset per usual. and then I think, yeah, the next day you see what he uses the DVD V for, right? Yeah. Yeah. He like, which is pretty funny. He's like, Penguin's gonna like make a speech about like, yep, Batman sucks and I'm cool.
But then using some superfluous like technology that's unexplained, he's able to hack into the speakers of his like speech. And he plays the DVD of Penguin saying like, uh, yeah, got them. Cities sucks. It's bad. Like I, I, I fooled. I fooled him. I'm the penguin and I fooled him, and he plays out instead of, he plays out and then everyone throws like tomatoes and stuff.
It's so funny. And I mean, yeah, we, and then Penguin comments on it, of course. He's like, why does everybody bring tomatoes and eggs to these things? And it's also really weird too. He like, he, he's like playing the seed. He has like the CD player and the Batman then like, moves it, like a record. It's like this RCD store, or DVDs or whatever works
Austin Lugo: It's like what
Andrew Harp: the, I totally forgot about that detail where he like, he moves it like a record. It's like, what? What's going on? But yeah. And then, yeah, penguin, he storms off and he retreats to his, he retreats to the penguin layer. I'm no
Austin Lugo: longer Oswald. I'm the penguin again. You shall all know me as just the penguin.
Andrew Harp: It's just, yeah, I'm not, I'm the penguin. And he shoots a guy, like when he shoots a guy too, they're like,
Austin Lugo: we're gonna kidnap all of the firstborns. Like we're just gonna fucking, and we're gonna kill him. And then one of the guys is like, Hey, that he's dark. This movie. The guy's like, Hey, maybe that's like not the best idea.
Like, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't be murdering children. And then he just immediately kills him. It's a shot. It's exactly like that scene in Batman. Batman, 1989 where all of jokers balloons are taken and uh, Jack Nicholson asks for his hinch man's gun and then just immediately shoots them. It's great.
It works great in both. Yeah. Two
Andrew Harp: great villains. Two nasty villains. They just kill one of their own guys because they're just kind of being like, they're arguing with him a little bit. They
Austin Lugo: gotta do their thing. Penguin's gotta, he's gotta fucking strap rocket launchers or rockets bombs. But to the
Andrew Harp: penguins, his planes are so weird and don't make any sense and they're floor toward it every single time.
It's almost sad. I think before that though, you had the charity ball, right? Where like Wayne and Shrek and everyone is there and Selena Kyle's. And they're chilling. And you know, they have that really nice moment where like Wayne and uh, Kyle, they have like a dance and they're kind of like talking about like the future and stuff.
And, and that's kind of when they realize that like, oh shit, you're ba you're, you're Batman, I'm ka
Austin Lugo: what the, the fuck? Of course it's all rudely interrupted by the penguin with his, uh, Huge explosion. Huge explosion. Love the explosions. These guys, little penguins.
Andrew Harp: No, everything, all, all the, all the violence in this movie.
It, it, it feels, it feels pretty real, I think. I think Bernie does a really good job at like, kind of directing the action and the violence in the movie. It feels pretty, um, grounded even though there are a lot of like silly kind of like, you know, like I say, expressionist elements in the movie a lot. E everything still feels pretty
Austin Lugo: violent.
No, I agree. Like the stake. Genuinely feel high. I mean, it's, the fighting is intense. The hitting's intense as, as I said before, my only real complaint is Batman's kind of hand to hand stuff isn't great. Which I noticed that there's a lot less so than this movie than there was in the last one. So that might have been, and I remember.
Reading about the struggles of trying to do hand-to-hand, uh, scenes or just like him in the Batman suit at all. Like I know there was a lot of kind of like problems with it just cuz the way it's a rob cop. Yeah. It, it's like a Robocop situation.
Andrew Harp: It's like impossible to move around in this suit cuz you don't wanna like fuck it up either.
Like, yeah.
Austin Lugo: Which again, maybe not the best way to design a Batman suit, but that's just me person. I mean, you know, to each their own. But as you said, you know, all the other violence is terrifying. And, you know, penguin's plan to fucking kidnap a bunch of children is very terrifying. , if a little nonsensical, I, I'm not exactly sure what his plan is at the end when he sends all those penguins, like, is he just planning to just,
Andrew Harp: just to blow everyone.
Yeah. Just to blow everyone. Yeah. He's pissed off. He's just gonna blow everyone up now because
Austin Lugo: his, I, I do love that fucking train he has where he is picking up all the firstborns, putting 'em in cages, and they're What are the fucking, like, fucked up thing to think about? Or, or his speech he gives to the penguins.
Like it's this big like, uh, you know, like Independence Day, emotional speech. It's the fucking penguins.
Andrew Harp: They're just penguins. Yeah. And like I said, they're real penguins and they have 'em go in and they're about to blow everything. and then I think Alfred, what? He overrides the control and then they just go, they leave, they scatter.
Austin Lugo: Yeah. I, you know what, this is the, um, first movie I've ever seen where the climax involved penguins waddling around. It
Andrew Harp: really is. Yeah. And once that's th thwarted, everything kind of comes crashing
Austin Lugo: down. I think I was a little confused by the thwarting of the penguins. Like I didn't really understand how they've been about sorting.
Like, I don't understand why. Is it because. . Batman had to be like, they're like radio
Andrew Harp: controlled.
Austin Lugo: Okay. And Batman had to be like close enough to them for them to be like, because like why is Batman like flying around? Like I didn't really understand, like I got what Alfred was doing. Cause he's like jamming their signals and such.
But like Batman's like flying around. Maybe he's just checking them out. Just checking 'em out, making sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. Yeah, , ,
Andrew Harp: once again, penguin, all of his plans fail. He has like several plans in the movie and they all fail quite a few.
Austin Lugo: Poor penguin. He just, he just wants to destroy the world and he's just
Andrew Harp: disgusting.
He's super disgusting.
Austin Lugo: All this is disgusting guy. And Batman just comes and fucking beats him up. And then, you know, the one Batman scene, bat fight scene I do like is the one between Batman and the pink one, because they're just like these two awkwardly moving people just kind of like, . Yeah,
Andrew Harp: they're flailing around and I think he falls in the water.
Right? And then he like dies cuz he's like poisoned cuz I think the water is contaminated. And he is like, and he like takes, like, he tries to pick, he tried to, does one more thing, tries to pick up like an umbrella to like shoot at Batman and it's just not right. And then he dies. It's kind of sad. And then the, and then the penguins like do like a feeder perception.
I love that. Which is like really, Yeah, it's a very good detail. It's like people in like suits, like picking up him up and putting him in the water. Very
Austin Lugo: good Penguin suits, uh, they're very realistic looking 10, 10 on the penguin
Andrew Harp: suits. And so now you have like Shrek and Catwoman and Batman, and they're all kind of like fighting each other.
Like she's about to kill Shrek. And then Batman is like, he kind of has like, it's kind of like a weird, um, it's kind of like a, you know, a rare, you know, one of the rare vulnerable moments that Batman has where he is just like, can we just like, look, let's just leave, you know, like, you don't have to do this, you know, and she's.
No, I got him and then like Shrek and then Shrek shoots both of them actually, Noah, she, he shoots Batman and then he has an Agonizingly long scene where she keeps shooting her Selena. Yeah,
Austin Lugo: like six times. And she's like counting all of her deaths. . She just keeps fucking going. And then
Andrew Harp: she, uh, they kiss.
They kiss in like a huge like, yeah, electrical surge. I love when Penguin, I love when not Penguin. I love when Batman's like, oh fuck, he looks over and like a Shrek is like a skeleton or something. , it doesn't make any sense. Electrocuted skeleton remains. Uh, but Selena isn't there. She's gone. She's gone.
Austin Lugo: She's mysteriously disappeared. And this reminds me of the moment earlier in the film that I forgot to point out, which still bothers me a. Well, it doesn't bother me. I'm, I'm a bit baffled by it, I guess, because there's that scene where the snow princess is pushed down, right? And she falls toward death and Batman's like standing there and he is like, oh no.
And then immediately after that he like flies away. Like he gets his fucking like suit, which isn't a complaint, it's just if you had the ability to fly this whole time, maybe. He should have at least tried to save the snow Princess. He's not the best Batman. He's like, not that Michael King doesn't play a good Batman.
That's not my complaint. My complaint is that Batman's not very good at being Batman. Like he's not, he's not good at it. I don't think he's very good at it, but he
Andrew Harp: thwarts all of the Penguin's plans. I
Austin Lugo: think the Penguins plans honestly would've been thwarted no matter what.
Andrew Harp: I don't, I don't know about that.
Batman is there. It's just worth them. And he also stops track from doing crazy stuff
Austin Lugo: too. Well, Catwoman kind of does that though. That's kind of cat woman's thing. That's true.
Andrew Harp: I don't know. It's hard to say. And
Austin Lugo: honestly, the pink one thing, that's Alfred, I mean, that's not really Batman. Alfred does that.
But there are other, there are other things
Andrew Harp: that he does though.
Austin Lugo: I guess I'm just saying he, he needs to work on his Batman.
Andrew Harp: Name me one good Batman who does everything perfectly.
Austin Lugo: Not perfectly. I'm just saying he could be better. I'm saying he has room to improve. As a Batman, you try it. . I will. I'm gonna become a billionaire and then I'm gonna become Batman.
And the,
Andrew Harp: and the other two movies like the, the gadgets and stuff, I get a little, uh, over the top in my opinion. Like their ability to, uh, thwart villains with these very specific gadgets gets a little ridiculous. It's fun to watch, but it, it's kind of silly. , they're still worth
Austin Lugo: watching. They're on the list.
I'll watch 'em. You haven't seen the Adam West one
Andrew Harp: yet, have you? No, I have not. No. It's like the one I haven't
Austin Lugo: watched. Okay. And the 19 43 1? Apparently.
Andrew Harp: Yeah. The 19 43 1. Yeah. This movie's sad. It ends on a very sad note. It, it, it ends with like Wayne seeing Selena and then he gets out of his car and then he finds only like a cat and which he takes, and then the very end has like the bat signal with like the cat woman, like in the, uh, foreground.
And I don't know, it just kind of ends like how the movie begins. Bruce Wayne and you know, just this, these two kind of like atomized individuals, you know, they're just kind of, uh, they're too different. You know, they have too many differences, even though they're very similar, even though they're like, they have too many differences, even though both of them like understand each other more than anyone else.
It's like a very, it's kind of like a very sad, uh, like, you know, ending in
Austin Lugo: moment. Really? It's a dark ending. Alfred says, Merry Christmas. Yeah, he says Merry Christmas. That's, that's like the last line in the movie. It's like fucking Merry Christmas.
Andrew Harp: I think Bruce Wayne then says, um, and toward Goodwill to All Men or something like that.
I think he, he is, yeah. Even though like, I don't know, it, it doesn't feel like the day was saved. .
Austin Lugo: It does not, it just seems like, ugh, Gotham is such a terrible place to live. Why would you live there? I wouldn't, I mean, maybe,
Andrew Harp: you know, it's dark. It's nighttime all the time. It's always nighttime.
Austin Lugo: Why? Ow. Got Janet selfie.
He's like, Catwoman, stop. Stop. Well, that Batman returns. Final thoughts Andrew?
Andrew Harp: Good ass movie. Good ass Christmas movie. Good Ass Batman movie. I, I, I, once again, you know, I think the villains kind of steal the show a little bit and I think Tim Burton's like direction and kind of like aesthetic and look also steals the show.
I think those two elements together create a really great movie. Watching it again, I kind of realized how like, kind of insane the plot and story actually is. Like, it's just like fucking, like, it's kind of bonkers, really. Like how things worked out, but that's fine. It's not really a complaint, it's just like something I noticed.
But yeah, I mean, it's a solid eight outta 10 for me. I, I don't think it's perfect, but I think it's really good. I don't think any Batman movies Perfect. Of the ones that exist, but this one's up there just cuz like it has such a strong look and like style and aesthetic and just, yeah, it's just so well done.
Austin Lugo: I love me a good superhero movie. I think there are far too many bad superhero movies, unfortunately. But I think we are the prime age for the superhero era. I mean, we were kids when the Ramey Trilogy came out. And then, you know, the Marvel whole thing started when we were in. Middle school. So superheroes always been a big deal to me.
Batman's always been my favorite of the superheroes cause he's the only one who doesn't have superpowers. Just the super rich guy who's just, you know, beating up criminals, which I think is total badass. And I w was unsure about these movies before I'd singing them. I mean, I do love Batman, but I know Tim Burton sometime.
This era burden is good. This era of burden is good. I think a little bit later, not too long after this, his style kind of overtakes the storyline. It takes up too much space. He also
Andrew Harp: uses, uh, something called CGI a little bit too much, in my opinion. Yeah,
Austin Lugo: it is. CGI is is not spectacular, but I will say, Batman, 19 nine.
Batman Returns two very enjoyable Batman movies. I do think Batman Returns is better than Batman 80 19 89, although I think the Joker is a better villain than Catwoman The Penguin. I think I agree with you that even though all of the villains in Batman returns are great. I love Shrek. I love Catwoman. I love the pink one.
It might be a little too much. There might just be like a little too many things. Going
Andrew Harp: on. You're not gonna like the other ones, . It's just so many villains. But anyway, go on.
Austin Lugo: Sorry. But I think the penguin's great. I think Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman is great. I think Christopher Walken as Shrek is great.
I think this movie is chaotic and insane, and it finds Tim Burton ready to be Tim Burton. It looks great. It's so fucking dark. Batman just doesn't give a shit. He just murdering people left and right. My only real complaint with this movie is the Batman suit. I don't like the suit. I think it's too rubbery.
He can't move. His hand-to-hand stuff is underwhelming, but there's only honestly like two hand-to-hand scenes in this movie, so it's not really that big of a deal. So I'm gonna give this movie a medium. Eight outta 10. Yeah, I'm with
Andrew Harp: you there. Good movie.
Austin Lugo: All right y'all. Thank you for listening. You can find everything I do ask and we'll go one,
Andrew Harp: two.
I'm on Twitter at ad har 24 on letterbox at Retro Andrew, r e t r zero Andrew, and
Austin Lugo: you can find this podcast wherever you hear podcasts. You can also find us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok with nothing to say or theater 42. And thank you all for listening. Thank you.