Grave of fireflies

A young boy and his little sister struggle to survive in Japan during World War II.

Austin Lugo: Before we get into this week's film, next week, we're beginning watching Steven Spielberg's AI Artificial Intelligence. I realized we haven't done many science fiction films in our, with nothing to say catalog. I can't think of the last science fiction film I actually did for, with nothing to say. Andrew, do you remember?

I remember. Who knows? It's been a minute for sure, and it's always good to get some Spielberg in our lives, so that'll be next week. But this week we watch the grave. Fireflies, the fireflies . What a sad movie. So sad. Yeah. ,

Andrew Harp: that's, that's kind of its reputation, right? Mm-hmm. , like that's kind of its ultimate reputation, is that it's extremely sad and I never seen it, but I've been aware of it, of a long, for a long time and its reputation.

And I knew it took place during World War ii. Like there was a lot I knew about it, but Sure. Uh, yeah. It's. Uh, effectively, uh,

Austin Lugo: depressing. So setting place and time, it takes place at the very end of World War ii. So during the bombings and after the bombings of Americans on Japan, and we start with a flash forward of sorts, we kind of start in the future and then work our way back.

Yeah. With this poor boy who's. Super poor, you know, homeless, sad life, and he dies. And that's like the very first scene of the film. . Yeah. It right

Andrew Harp: away is extremely like, like dead children and stuff.

Austin Lugo: It's awful. This poor

Andrew Harp: boy. He's dead. Yeah. Right away. Like I think the first line is like he says like the date, and then he says, that was the night that I died.

And it's like him. Seeing himself, uh, die essentially, um, in what I think is Kobe, which is where the movie takes place.

Austin Lugo: And when the security guards find him, he is amongst all of these other older children, young men, who have all just passed away. And this carry guard's just like, well, there's another one, just

Andrew Harp: another dead kid.

Yeah. It's like a, like a dead dog or something. Yeah.

Austin Lugo: It's brutal. And they, and they search his person to see if he has any effects or belongings. And the only thing they find of interest is that little tin

Andrew Harp: can of the sac. The saima

Austin Lugo: drops, can the saima drops . Which looked delicious by the way.

Andrew Harp: They're real thing.

I, I, I, i Are they? I looked, I looked it up and it's like a real, like ancient, like a hundred year old Japanese candy. Oh, that's awesome. . Yeah. They do look good though.

Austin Lugo: So the prison, or not prison guards, security guards, or they're like, they're whatever have you? They're like janitors.

Andrew Harp: Yeah, . I don't even know if they're guards.

They just look like janitor. I dunno. He like finds it's in can and he's just like, huh, okay. And he like for some reason, throws it out and he just throws it out. Yeah, I don't know. He just is just like, whatever, I'll throw it out. , maybe he was lazy to like find a trash can or something, and he like, he, there's no reason.

And of course you get that extremely sad, um, interaction where he becomes a ghost and he sees what we will later know is his sister. But it's clear that they're siblings of some sort, like they're related and Yeah, they have like a moment where he, like, he picks up the box that's all scratched up and it like, becomes new again and he gives it mm-hmm.

um, to his sister. and they go and hang out and it's like right away. Like that's just like basically like right before the title card. It's already like, I don't know, it, it's very emotionally effective when there's really no dialogue, you know? Yeah. It's a very, because you have a fe, because you kind of now, you now foresee the end of the movie pretty much.

Mm-hmm. ,

Austin Lugo: extremely powerful moment, and I wasn't sure which direction this film was gonna go in. I mean, as you said, I knew this film was gonna be, Quite sad, but I didn't know if it was gonna be some sort of ghostly film where, you know, he haunts some sort of living person or what have you. Of course that that's not what, what happens.

We are thrown back in time a couple of years, like two or three, or maybe not even a year. I mean, not even

Andrew Harp: years. Maybe even just like a few months.

Austin Lugo: Yeah, a few months for sure. And they are living their best life at that. For a moment, not very

Andrew Harp: long. Well, yeah, they, yeah, they're chilling in Kobe. It's it's brother and sister.

It's, uh, Satta and, uh, Setsuko. Satta. And, and they, uh, did you, did you um, watch the dub or the sub of this? The only version

Austin Lugo: I could find was the dub. Oh my God. I know. I was very hard to find this film.

Andrew Harp: I found, I found a sub .

Austin Lugo: Well,

Andrew Harp: ladi da. Yeah, ladi da. Yeah. I found the sub, I don't think I could stomach a terrible like dub of this movie, you know what I mean?

Feel like, I wouldn't

Austin Lugo: say it was a terrible dub. I mean, it was, you know, it's still gik, so

Andrew Harp: they get like just shitty celebrity. Like, they just get, they get recognizable names and

Austin Lugo: they're terrible. They get recognized full names. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Harp: I, I've, I on HBO Max. They have all the Studio Gibby movies, but they don't give you the option for the sub.

No. They're all dubbed. Right. Which is really, really terrible. It's wild. Um, because there, there are some that are suitable, but they're, there are some that are just like, this is really, really, really bad . Like, I don't know what to say. Like, it's just the acting is bad. Um, grab the fireflies for some reason, even though it's easily.

One of the most famous studio Gibby movies. It's just not on, it's not on HBO O Max where all the other Gibby movies are. I'm not really sure why the usage of this movie is weird. Um, but I know I found this sub because I needed, I really, I knew for this movie I needed to hear these people speak Japanese.

Mm-hmm. to get, you know, to really kind of submerge myself in kind of the story and the history and stuff, and. I think that was so, yeah, I'm sorry, but you know, , I don't know.

Austin Lugo: Well, you're a lucky bastard, I guess.

Andrew Harp: Yeah, well I just, I know how to use the internet .

Austin Lugo: Well, I didn't, I wanted to watch it on my TV and I didn't wanna have to like, hook up my computer to the tv.

Uh, so it's, it was partly out of laziness. Whatever you got, you

Andrew Harp: got, you got it. You got the, you got the gist of the movie. I'm sure got the gist. Yeah, it's, it's pretty clear. It's not like a terribly like, I don't know. , you can, you can probably like watch this movie with the sound off and probably get a good idea of what's going on, you know?

Mm-hmm. , it's not terribly complicated. .

Austin Lugo: Yeah, I would say it is a visually succinct film, and I do wonder the differences between the dub and the sub, because it seems to be, and it's hard to say because I didn't get the sub version, I only got the dub version. Seems to be a. Beautifully written film. Did you get that same impression?

Andrew Harp: It's based on a short story. Um, okay. And I would say, yeah, it was well written. I mean, I like just, maybe not in dialogue, but yeah, there's a lot of like really great impactful moments in the, in the movie for sure. Um, Like I said, like you could just have the sound. I think you could. I think you could. I think everything is still impactful.

Like the moments are still impactful even if you don't hear all of the details of the dialogue. Um, but I'm sure it helps , obviously.

Austin Lugo: Yeah. And plus that wonderful score, that very Studio Ghibli esque. Score. It just kind of floating.

Andrew Harp: I love the piece of music that plays at the very beginning when they reunite as ghosts, that that music at the beginning is really great, really great track.

But they like, they go on a train, they're like ghosts and they're on a train. And like you said, it goes back in time and it's like just. You know, basically telling the story about how they died and this opening part of the movie where they're still like at home with their mom and stuff. That whole part at the beginning is so stressful.

I was so stressed about

Austin Lugo: it. It's wild because these people are just supposed to, like, whenever there's a bombing rate, they just have to go. Yeah. And fucking find a Well, I understand why was. Boy, what was the boy digging? Because like the mom left to go to the shelter and he's like, we'll be there in a minute.

But what, what was he doing? Why would, why did he not

Andrew Harp: remember when he goes back to the rubble and he finds a bunch of stuff that were under their hou that were at their house, he was burying it like the plums Is that he burying it? Yeah, that's him. That's him bearing a bunch of like supplies and then he goes back after what's destroyed to go fetch.

Austin Lugo: What a smart cat. I, I would've never thought of that. .

Andrew Harp: Yeah. I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. I'm assuming just, I don't know, maybe that was a common thing to do in World War II Japan. I don't know.

Austin Lugo: Um, probably, I'm guessing because like what he does later in the movie, I'm guessing there was a lot of raids in the sense not rates, a lot of people being robbed during.

These raids because just like he does later in the movie, because no one's there and everyone's, yeah, just like he does later. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm guessing that's probably why they bury their stuff. Plus, I guess if their house gets burned down, well, yeah, it

Andrew Harp: wouldn't get destroyed. It wouldn't get destroyed.

It's underground. It wouldn't get destroyed. Yeah. It'd be protected. Yeah. You would just have to like, you know, dig through a bunch of rebel, which would suck. But I guess that's why he put it in the backyard, like he. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I just find it really stressful. Them like running around, no shit.

Trying to like collect their shit so they can like, get to the shelter because like the, a bombing is happening, like that part was, I found very stressful. Um, and that animation too, when the bombs start coming down and they all hit the ground and they all bounce around and stuff. That was very stressful and very well.

Austin Lugo: So fucking wild. I mean, there's people just running in 20 different directions, yelling and screaming. Yeah. You know, he's carrying his little sister on his back.

Andrew Harp: They're trying to get to their mom who already left.

Austin Lugo: They're trying to get to the shelter where their mom is at. But of course, chaos it, it's complete chaos.

Everyone's running. It's chaotic. They can't get there. There's no like, , there's no structure to it. I mean, how could there be like you see a raid like ?

Andrew Harp: Yeah. And well, it also seems like, it seems like as the movie later on in the movie, it seems like they do this a lot where they do mm-hmm. raid alarms, you know what I mean?

Like they do. Yeah. Like, oh, there's gonna be a bombing. But I think only like, A plane is in the vicinity or something like that. Right. It's just a precaution, it seems like. Yeah. But this time it was actually real and it, uh, just completely, um, it destroys the village. I mean, which are incendiary bombs, right?

Like mm-hmm. , um, just torching, uh, the village. Um, and they're not able to get to the shelter, so I think they, they go to the school or something like that. They have to go somewhere else.

Austin Lugo: They go somewhere else. Yeah. I can't remember exactly where they go. Well, oh,

Andrew Harp: they, they kind of like, they kind of hang out on that little gutter area on the outskirts of town.

Yes. And they kind have like a conversation. Right. And I think even like he has like the candy there with her to give to his sister Sada. and um, and they're just kind of like, they're walking around kinda like worried about their mom and stuff and you know, the whole like sky is like, you know, just lit up and it's orange and filled with smoke and it just, it sucks.

Austin Lugo: yeah. I've spent a little bit of time reading about the Pacific invasion, specifically the type of bombs that they used before they used the nuclear bombs and the way. These bombs were built, they weren't really built to explode necessarily, which you kind of see in the , right? I don't, they weren't, yeah, no, they're not made to like create explosions.

They're made to start fires. Yeah. And at the time, Japan was just a really flammable country because a lot of the building material that they used was very flammable. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of like incredibly horrible. Stories of these sort of bombings, which were much more intense than say the ones in Germany or Britain, because partly because it's just, yeah, the structure's much more flammable and the technology had increased over the couple years to the point where like, these are , extremely dangerous bombs, and they were.

Very precise in, they're dropping and you can see that like, yeah, they weren't, they just bounce around. Yeah, they bounce around. They weren't like, you know, missile seeking or anything like that. And most importantly, they weren't really being dropped on military bases. They were just, as in this case, they just, they're dropping villages.

Yeah. Yeah. They're just dropping them off and destroying like villages.

Andrew Harp: Just like very innocent villages. Mm-hmm. , um, Yeah, it's, uh, it's pretty terrible. Yeah. The, just the whole destruction of the city and everyone, and everyone getting hurt and stuff is very, uh, concerning. Uh, it's mm-hmm. pretty terrible, uh, to see.

And I mean, yeah, you get those great, like, um, uh, still, you know, uh, drawings of like, he's looking at his village and it's just destroyed, like there's nothing left standing.

Austin Lugo: Yeah. Beautifully Dark images with just the black clouds of smoke and the fire rising up and reminds

Andrew Harp: me of, I mean, they show corpses too.

They show

Austin Lugo: corpses too. Oh yeah. It's not a film you want to show children. It's a pretty, I mean,

Andrew Harp: I don't know. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe it would be the best movie , like, you know what I mean? It's like, like, it's like it's a dark movie, but it's like, what are you just. Act like it never happened. You know, this is probably like, this isn't like, yeah, like a Princess Mona Noke kind of fantasy movie.

It's a very much a real foreboding, um, movie. You know what I mean? That gets the point. Acro it gets the point across at least when it comes to like the atrocities at that time.

Austin Lugo: Absolutely. No, I completely agree. And these visuals are very reminiscent of. Watercolor paintings, especially kind of like oi and uh, those sorts, especially like the way water moves and the way clouds move and the smoke just very dark and foreboding.

Yeah, it's intense .

Andrew Harp: Yeah. It's a great movie. Yeah. Well, yeah, just like I said, this whole part of the beginning was great and yeah. So yeah, it's like, you know, um, Like, it's clear too in the section that they're very close, brother and sisters. Mm-hmm. , um, they're close. They love each other. They're taking care of each other.

It's clear from the beginning. They're the extent of their relationship. Um, and then they go to the elementary school, which of course is another very difficult scene. This whole beginning is just like a bunch of very difficult scenes to go back to back, go through where they go there and they're. Yo, like your mom, she's injured.

It's like she's injured. Uh, okay. Injured is a very, um, I don't know if they, they in the, in the, in the subtitles it says injured. I don't know if they say that in the dub. Um, but that woman, that random woman comes up to him and says, and he like goes there and she is just completely mummified, essentially.

It's

Austin Lugo: awful. I mean, she's ramped from head to toe and bandages and all you can see are her eyes, which. Another great animation. Yeah. Like you can see the emotions in these people's eyes, which I don't know how you do that with animation, but , it's powerful and

Andrew Harp: yeah. It's, yeah. He can't talk to her. He's, she's completely like, she must have, you know, she's em emulated, you know?

Mm-hmm. probably caught on. Just Terri just disgusting. And you know, it's like, it, it feels pretty real, you know, it doesn't feel too, um, fantastical. Um, yeah, it's just terrible. And I think they just dump her, right? Like, I think she dies cuz it's like they, they don't have anything like there in terms of medical splice to help his mom.

Yeah. He

Austin Lugo: has a conversation with, I, I guess you can call him the doctor. Or whatever, but he is basically like, she needs to go to a hospital. Like we can't take care of her. The things that she needs and requires are far away and we need to get her there as soon as possible. And so he is like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna take her there.

But lo and behold, when they attempt to move her, there's like maggots and flies all over her. Yeah, I think she did. She's dead, which we learn in a couple of scenes after that, which is a nice way of telling that because before that scene, they have to go to their aunt's house because their father is in the Navy and their mother Yeah, I know.

So is at this point, they believe sick. And when they're riding on the train, it opens on an image of another young man holding a jar, which we of course, Realize is ashes. And then we pull back to, uh, the brother and sister with the little sister napping on, on his lap. And the very next scene we see him holding a similar jar, which is how we learned that.

Yeah. Yeah. The mother didn't indeed pass away. I mean, I guess you could kind of infer it from the maggots and flies, right? Right. I think she's flying over, but they don't say it specifically, but he also doesn't tell his aunt or his sister at first. He kind of tries to hide it from.

Andrew Harp: Yeah, it's pretty bad.

Yeah, it sucks. And, uh, yeah, so pretty much, you know, their mom is dead. They're basically alone, right? Like, and like you said, they gotta go to their aunt, um, who lives, I think in the same, I think in the same area, but farther away, more in the countryside, I guess you could say, unless sure, like on the water where they live and.

Yeah, they go to their aunt and they do have that like moment at the beginning when they arrive, where they see all the fireflies, obviously as the title suggests. Fireflies like come out, come out, come, you know, up a lot. Yeah. Um, in the film. So they have that moment where like there's tons of them and they're running around and they're flying around and you know, they're just kind of like hanging out, which is a lot.

Which they do that a lot. The two of them do that a lot. They hang out a lot. There's a lot of hanging

Austin Lugo: out in this movie for sure. Yeah. But they finally get to their aunt's house and we're introduced to the aunt. And at first you're like, oh, this aunt person, she's,

Andrew Harp: that's nice. Yeah. Yeah. And she kind of, yeah,

Austin Lugo: But, uh, of course we learn pretty quickly that this aunt is not. The nicest human being in the world. She has some, not really , she has some issues. I would say.

Andrew Harp: Some she gets progressively more upset with the two kids, um, for reasons that aren't really in their control, you know, like they, they're, they don't work, but mm-hmm.

I don't know. Like they're both, they both seem very young, so it's kind of hard to, I don't know, ask like a little baby. Go work. Like, I don't understand, like, like, it's like, I don't, I don't think you can be, they're like, she's basically getting mad at them cuz they're like freeloaders. But it's like, you know, the kids, they're, they're kids.

Like, I don't, I don't know what to tell you. And you know, they can't go to school. Right. Because as you said in the movie, the school's been destroyed. Um, but yeah, she gets progressively, like more and more angry and annoyed with them frustratingly so. Mm-hmm. .

Austin Lugo: It's wild. And there's. Wild scene early on where you know, the two of them, they're just kinda like sitting around chillaxing living their life and then comes in and she asked, why aren't you in school?

And he goes, oh, we can't go school cuz the school burned down so I can't work in the iron mines. Which means that these kids were going to school and then being sent to iron mines to like help with the war effort, which is wild. That like 10 year old kids. I mean, I get that. At the time, everyone was sort of on the war effort, which is definitely much more the case in Japan than it was in the United States.

I mean, of course in the United States, women were becoming rivets and you know, all that kind of stuff. But even more so in Japan, like you over the work of Zawa or these Japanese filmmakers, World War ii, like literally everyone was doing their part cuz it's such a, so much smaller of a country than, you know, the United States or a lot of the countries they're up against.

So yeah, every single person kind of had to be part of the process, but not these two kids, these lazy.

Andrew Harp: Sons of bitches. Yeah. They're good for nothing. Yeah. It's like, I don't, yeah, I understand kind of the do your part thing or whatever. But yeah, it's just kind of, it's frustrating. Like she just gets progressively more and more angry at them.

Um, and you know, they have to divvy up rations and, you know, I think when it comes to like food, um, just like with animals, I feel like food. Is something that I think when it has to be like rationed and stuff like that, I feel like food is something that really makes people contentious and very angry.

You know, when it comes to. I mean this, you know, I have this food, they have that food. You know, why do they have more food than me? You know, like shit like that where it's just kind of like this, you know, angry, kind of contentious mood when it comes to food. And it's definitely demonstrated here and some other media I've seen, you know, where, you know, food is just like this thing that is very, very, you know, important to the Japanese people, right?

Yeah. And it's. , uh, it's something that they can't get a lot of and you know, with kids, kids eat, have to eat a lot , so, and they do, right? Yeah. So it, it's kind of difficult to do that when you have to, ration

Austin Lugo: and rations are all the more challenging, what you see in the film because it's not really an issue of money or being able to trade things.

As you can see, they're trading all this stuff and money and it's not that. Have the money to buy more rations or can't afford it. It's that, you know, every person can only have this many rations and it doesn't really matter how much money you give or how much money you don't give. Like this is just, this is all there is.

Cause the rest has to go to fading the troops or it has been destroyed by farmland or whatever. So it's another frustrating thing where you're given. A certain amount of ration and you just have to have it. Like there's not really any choice around it. There's no control. And I think that has a lot to do with Yeah, the food thing and, and rice specifically, of course in rice.

Yeah. That, that sense of control, that sense of being able to do something or anything at all, especially during mm-hmm. these war times. So the refusing to give the kids anything with a, a good amount of rice is very frustrating.

Andrew Harp: Right. And, but I kind of understand, obviously I understand because you gotta make sure everybody doesn't die, you know?

Sure. You gotta keep it, you gotta keep it at a good amount. So, but yeah, like you said, it's just kind of like the whole thing. Obviously, I'd like to imagine that most Americans would not be able to survive a world like a, like we'd be able to survive this point, this period of time in which like, food has to be rationed, you know?

Mm-hmm. and you have to kind of like be very careful with. Most Americans, I think would give up . Uh,

Austin Lugo: I mean, it certainly says a lot for the dedication to their country and their strong belief and what they're fighting for, whatever it is that they're fighting for. You know, a true sense of community, which is inspiring to the nth degree even.

They're going through situations which are just absolutely awful as these two kids are with their aunts. And does the aunt are tho those both her kids, or is it Those are her kids. Okay, so it's her daughter and her son. Yeah, yeah,

Andrew Harp: yeah. Those are

Austin Lugo: her kids. Yeah. Okay. That's what I thought. I just wasn't sure a hundred percent sure on the relationship between the daughter and.

The son, I didn't know if that was her son or if that was someone she was like dating or close to her married. I feel like those are

Andrew Harp: probably both her kids. Yeah.

Austin Lugo: Okay. Mm-hmm. , but obviously the aunt is, she kind of has that sort of classic stepmother. kind of feel tour. Mm-hmm. in the sense that these are really evil stepmother, her kids

Andrew Harp: Yeah. Yeah. Why do I have to take care of them? Fuck this. Mm-hmm. , you know, like, yeah,

Austin Lugo: where's, where's their father? Where's their mother? These sort of things, which

Andrew Harp: is, yeah, just getting very, yeah, that's pretty much like not the greatest a in the world. Th that's pretty much like 30 minutes of the movie, right?

Is like them living with their aunt and dealing with it. And also, you know, at one point she gets so angry that she's just like, you can just keep yourself, you. and like, eat by yourself. We're not gonna eat together anymore. And they're like, okay. And they, they were able to get some cooking equipment and then they do it, eat their own food, and they do it.

And they do do it. And she gets like angry about it. Like, you know, she's dead ruining . Yeah. She gets constantly mad. You know, they, they kind of check out the whole area. They like the area, you know, they go to the beach. They ha they have like a nice little moment at the beach. Beach is nice. It's nice. I like, like that.

You have that bit where they, um, think about like taking that photo, that family photo with all four of them. That's a nice moment as well. Yeah. You know, they're just, uh, they, like I said, they just get progressively and progressively the aunt progressively gets more and more angry at them. Like I said, it's frustrating, but, you know,

Austin Lugo: it is extremely frustrating.

But certainly within the, the sense of believability. I mean, there's nothing fantastically. About this woman. I mean, certainly not, not really. No. Top-notch love by any means. Yeah. Not the best aunt in the world, but nothing outside the range of normality, especially during these trying times. But at the end of the day, the inevitable happens, which is these two kids are like, we can't, we can't do this anymore.

Like we just can't handle being constantly berated. Yeah. And so, and I think the reason that they. decide to do this is because there's an air raid. Correct. So they,

Andrew Harp: yeah. They get the idea for it. Right? Like, like when, whenever there's an air raid, they decide to go to these abandoned mines mm-hmm. , um, I think probably just outside of town or something like that.

And they, so they just kind of chill there, um, during the air raid. And they, they intercut like a clip of like the ing like, oh, you're going to the mines again. Why don't you just live there? Or something like that. . And they're. Okay. Okay. We will, you know, like, and, and, and they do, you know, comedically, so right, they get the cart, they like sell and stuff, sell a bunch of stuff, and they get a bunch of supplies and they get on a, on a, uh, you know, they get on a wagon.

And, uh, they're just like, yep, we're leaving. And she's like, really? And yep, we're just gonna go out and see what we can find. Like, they don't tell her that they're going to the mines. And she's like, uh, okay. Bye. .

Austin Lugo: I think they imply that they're going to see other family, like they're going to another town to see other people.

Yeah. But the answer's like, whatever. So yeah, just doesn't really look into that at

Andrew Harp: all. She's, she's just kind of confused, but she's like, So, yeah. . Yeah. And, and, and they go to the mines, um, which is kind of like a buy, like a pond. Mm-hmm. and yeah. This is like a part of the movie where they're just like, um, they essentially create for a minute, like their own little paradise essentially.

Yeah. Which is very nice. Um, yeah.

Austin Lugo: It's a very lovely little montage. Just like you see kids doing every day, they're playing house, they're cleaning, they're cooking, they're doing that. Of course, the stakes are much higher than typical, but you can see at first that they're just kind of, you know, fumbling their way through things in a a fun sort of way.

They're trained things to get rice and they're fishing and they're doing all these sorts of things, and they're just having a grand old time. They're building their little. Apartment. Right? They're deciding, oh, the kitchen's gonna be here. This is gonna be there. Yeah. Chill.

Andrew Harp: They're, yeah, they love it. They love it.

They don't have any adults. They don't have any annoying adults around

Austin Lugo: them. . Yeah. They can do whatever they want. And I believe that montage ends with the firefly scene, doesn't it?

Andrew Harp: What Firefly scene are you talking about? There's a many,

Austin Lugo: the one. That's true. The one where they capture all those fireflies and put 'em in the bed netting, right?

Yeah.

Andrew Harp: So they have like an amazing time, and this is kind of where it turns a little bit, right, where they collect a bunch of fireflies in a bucket and they go in their mosquito net and the mine and they open it up and all the fireflies are, are flying around them and they, they love it. , I think you have that moment where he, he sees the fireflies and he imagines seeing like a, like a navy parade or something like that going on and yeah.

You know, he's feeling, you know, he's feeling uplifted, right? Mm-hmm. , he feels very uplifted and kind of, um, um, but he is hearkening back to past times, you know, obviously things were better back then. Yeah.

Austin Lugo: Very powerful and beautiful scene watching these fireflies. Floating around lighting the little space that they have as the two of them fall asleep, the fireflies have a almost ghostly idealization to them as if these are kind of the souls of lives pass almost this reincarnation sort of thing.

Sure. I, I.

Andrew Harp: Yeah, it. It's kinda hard to say honestly, with the firefighter that they represent. They can, they can, there's a lot, the reading is very, you know, very broad I think. Mm-hmm. . Um, one thing I will say about the movie is that a lot of movies do this, and what a lot of, like Japanese media likes to do is it kind of has like a fetishism for, um, like the Japanese countryside.

And this is a good example of a movie, especially up to this point where, Japanese countryside is so lush, so wonderful. It's so great. It's so much fun. You know, so there's a lot of that going on here, which is nice if you like that kind of stuff. Yeah, I,

Austin Lugo: I imagine that it probably has something to do with just the really rapid industrialization of Japan.

Andrew Harp: Yeah,

Austin Lugo: sure. Yeah. From. Like early World War II and onwards because yeah, it's sort of this weird thing, especially if you watch a lot Kira Kosawa films. We'll have films that take place in the early 19 hundreds, but the early 19 hundreds of Japan look very similar to the 16 hundreds in Japan. Like there's very sure because they basically closed themselves off from the world.

So there's very little. Industrialization. But then once World War II begins, it's just like an extremely rapid, and to this day still right, just extreme technological advance and kind of the rise of these giant cities, which is most of, when people think of Japan, they think of these very technologically advanced cities, which are full and full of people.

But I think just, just in the same way as the United States, kind of has a specialization of the West in the late 18 hundreds. I think it's something similar.

Andrew Harp: It's not as fun though. , I guess the Japanese countryside is more chill. It's more about like being chill and having nice times. westerns are maybe some people think that the West was really cool and stuff, but I would, I mean, to me that just seems like a very terrible time.

I don't know. and they, I don't know. Most movies are, most westerns are kind of like that. But yeah, I understand. There's, there is like a, you're right that there is like a fetishism with it though, for sure. Mm-hmm. Valley location. It's good. Yeah. But, but I, the location. Yeah.

Austin Lugo: Yeah. Sorry. But they capture all fire lights.

Yeah. It's beautiful. So they capture all these fireflies, beautiful little moment you imagines Japan winning the war, his father coming home, being awesome, everything being as it should be, and they fall asleep to this. and when you awake the next morning mm-hmm. , the little sister is digging a hole. And of course the brother asks, why are you digging a hole?

And you just see like eight.

Andrew Harp: Yeah. Because they all die like while they're in the net. Yeah. And it's just

Austin Lugo: a giant firefly graveyard. A really dark image. And we're

Andrew Harp: boating . It's very foreboding, , because yeah, it, it, it is foreboding cuz the rest of the movie is pretty m. Just,

Austin Lugo: it goes downhill really fast. It gets really intense really quickly.

Andrew Harp: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think also in that moment when she's burying all the fireflies, as we also, she says like, I know mom is dead. Like I know she died. Mm-hmm.

Austin Lugo: because the aunt told her that she's dead. Yeah. She died. And so it's her weird confrontation. with death and trying to understand what death is because it's clear that the, I mean, she's a little girl.

She's only supposed to be like, what, like five or six years old, like a little kid, not very old. And her grasp of what death is is still very vague as it is with anyone of that age. So the bearing of the fireflies feels almost like a realization of what death is, and. going on in the world

Andrew Harp: and what's gonna happen to

Austin Lugo: her?

Listen and and to them, what's gonna happen to her because after this moment they run out of food. I mean, they run out of food. They

Andrew Harp: basically run out to figure out. Yeah. Yeah. You have that moment too, where like the, um, the kids stop by and they kind of like lambasted, like, somebody's living here, da da, da.

You know, kind of like being kind of annoying about it. But yeah, they, they run out of food and pretty much the rest of the movie is them trying to find food. Like desperately trying to find some kind of food somewhere. Um, they get very desperate. Um, and it's very sad. .

Austin Lugo: Yeah, it's intense. First of course, they go to the farmer and they're like, I'll trade you stuff for more food.

Like, I can give you stuff, I can give you money, whatever you need. And the farmer's, like, I don't have any food to give. Like, these are all the rations I have. I. Like I, I just don't have anything to give. And it's yeah, a very intense moment. And so another air raid happens and they jump into a farm and they discover all this wonderful food that nobody's eating.

Just Yeah. Sitting on the vines. Yeah.

Andrew Harp: They start stealing

Austin Lugo: essentially. So they start stealing food. But the thing is like they can't steal enough food for them to survive on. They're hungry all the time. The little girl starts getting rashes on her back. Really? Graphic.

Andrew Harp: Yeah. She gets like, yeah, she gets, I think her rashes start early on and they just get worse and worse and worse.

Mm-hmm. and, yeah. The rashes on her towards the end are really, really, they're really

Austin Lugo: difficult and they're quickly going through the last few candies that they have. They even do that thing right, where he puts water in the the jar and he, yeah. Yeah. And he shakes

Andrew Harp: up. To have like a tea . Yeah. They, they, they, they fish and you know, they do all this stuff.

They eat gross food. Um, you know, it eventually culminates into the other moment in which, um, he starts to steal and he gets like horribly beaten up. Of course. Um, yeah. Yeah. He starts, that's a tough scene

Austin Lugo: as well. Oh my God. He starts breaking into houses during raid to steal stuff so he can. Food and supplies.

And one of those things he steals is he steals like a stock of sugar because his sister is sick and he's just trying to figure out how to get her better. Cause he doesn't know what to do, he's just a kid. And as he steals it, a farmer catches him. Just the worst man.

Andrew Harp: To exist. Yeah. He gets very, very angry.

He is completely, doesn't understand him and just like beats the shit out of him really badly. Beats the shit to have a kid. It's awful. He's like a malnourished kid. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Austin Lugo: and he, he threatens him and beats him and drags him to basically the military police. Yeah. And the officers like, Hey, farmer, you're a terrible human being.

You need to leave. Yeah. He was cool. And farmer's all angry.

Andrew Harp: Yeah, he was cool. He let him go, essentially. He didn't get in trouble.

Austin Lugo: He's like one of the only kind adult figures in this film. Yeah. And he's like, Hey, don't worry about it. Just, you know, it's, it's okay. And then he just, he lets him go. He's just like, go, go on and back to.

Life, I guess.

Andrew Harp: Yeah. He doesn't, yeah, nothing improves after that. Everything still continues to get worse. Like say that it continues to get worse. Say that's still sad. That's still desperate. Perfu, like we said earlier, he's so desperate that endur, when towns are fire bombed, he runs in because when everybody's out of the city, he can go and steal food, um, for him and his uh, uh, sister, and eventually they get so desperate.

That he takes her to a doctor. Right. And the doctor. Yeah. That's another, you know, human being that was com another adult that was completely unhelpful. Where, you know, they go in, they're like, her rashes are ho, hor, are horrifying and really bad and he's just like, yeah, she just needs to eat more. And sad is like, where the hell am I supposed to get food?

I don't have any food. What a

Austin Lugo: just intense, very frustrating, an awful moment. Yeah. It's so frustrating because you know what the problem is? Like the doctor's immediately like, yeah, she just needs to eat more food. And he's like, well, duh. Like, I know she needs to eat more food. Yeah, but ,

Andrew Harp: we need you to help else.

Like is there any way you can like. I don't know, do you have anything else that you could provide to help her? But it's just, it's just nothing. And oh, she also mentions that she keeps having like diarrhea as well. And that's also like, oh, okay, she's super dehydrated. This is not good . Yeah, no,

Austin Lugo: she's having all these symptoms.

She's got all these rashes. Ugh. It's, it's awful. I mean, you're watching this little girl slowly starved to death. I mean, there's no other way to.

Andrew Harp: You know what, and that's what happens. .

Austin Lugo: That's what happens. He's off, I think he's off trying to get more food, and when he get back, he, he gets money. Remember?

Andrew Harp: He gets money.

He gets money at the bank, and that's when he kind of, he kind of

Austin Lugo: has that, that's how he takes the rest of the money out.

Andrew Harp: Yeah. Yeah. He takes that and then he, he finds out at the bank that Japan surrendered. Yeah. And he realizes like, His dad is dead. You know, that's basically, and as far as we can tell, he probably is like, we don't actually get like mm-hmm.

I don't know, like a complete confirmation that he died. But I mean, he's dead, right? Like, I don't know. It would be, it's just, it's just, that's how it feels, you know? And to him, Satta at the ti at the moment, he firmly believes that like, yeah, my dad is dead. There's no way he's still around. Um, and that's when he, yeah, he gets the rest of the money and he buys food and he goes to see his sister again at the mines.

Yeah,

Austin Lugo: it's very reminiscent of many people during the end of World War II where you don't know if your father or spouse or brother or what, or son or whatever is passed away. They've just kind of disappeared because just so many people fought in the war, and a lot of them just disappear in action, and there's no good way to know if they passed or not.

And for many families, they would. Many, many years before they're given any true confirmation of this person passed away. And there's certainly been cases where they believe someone passed away and years later yeah, they come back as a, from a prisoner of war or what have you, having not passed away. But I, I think we get that sense certainly in this, which is throughout the film, he keeps writing Yeah.

To his father and you keeping no responses. You're kind of starting to gather what's going on, but at this point it's kind of set in stone. The wars ended, right? There's no more air raid, so it should be a moment of celebration. And yet at that moment he learns that his father is most likely dead. And again, just more people, more adults being unhelpful when he tries to find out if his father is alive or not.

But there, there is sort of this. Moment of relief because there's not gonna be any more air rates. He has money for food. Yeah. Who knows what the future is gonna look like, but at least for the moment it's

Andrew Harp: gonna be okay. Yeah. He goes to his sister and he, he seems like very, um, like, come on, look, go all this.

You know, I got a bunch of food, like, you're ready to go. And yeah, you get the, the very sad moment, like, you know, it's coming as a viewer, you know, it's coming where she can barely talk. She can't get up, she can barely eat food. and Yeah. She is slipping away. Mm-hmm. ? Yes. This cute girl. She's, she's very cute.

Very cute. Very fun . Um, so it's sad when, uh, she's just kind of slowly slipping away. Yeah.

Austin Lugo: You watch her suck on rocks. No marbles that look like the candies that she's been eating. Yeah. And she creates piles of dirt. They look, they're supposed to look like rice balls. Yeah. And she's clearly hallucinating and has kind of lost all sense of reality.

Yeah. And in many ways he feels responsible for this moment and he's trying to do everything he can, but it's kind of too late.

Andrew Harp: Yeah. It's really too late. Yeah. It's really like, yeah, he, he, he was a little too late and. , you know, he gives her some watermelon and all this stuff, and then he leaves for a minute and then she falls asleep.

And then she dies and Yeah. You know, and after she dies you get that, you know, you get that nice, very, very sad part where she's kind of like appearing and disappearing in different places around the mind where she, you know, did this or did that or whatever. It's very, very trouble troubling , you know, it's just, uh, it's, it's.

It's a huge hit. I don't know. It's like really, really, it's really, I mean, I, you know, it's sad. I don't know what else to, uh, what to say about it. Yeah. And he is also constructing, um, her, her, her grave as well. Right. He has to go and get like a basket cuz he is gonna cremate her and all that is just not, uh, it's uh, it's really, it's really bad.

Austin Lugo: Yeah. Just a heart rendering. And he goes to another adult and buys coal and he is like, and like the coal guy's, like, yep. What you're gonna want to do is you're just gonna do this and just gonna light these coal and this is how you cremate a person. Because I guess people just just winded their own cremations and yeah, he cremate his little sister.

Andrew Harp: And I'm assuming what happens then is that, you know, he doesn't go back to the mine, I'm assuming he just. , right? Like he, I think probably the death of his sister and the death of his parents essentially has now rendered him. Um, just, he just gave up like, you know, his body gave up. He, I, I'm ge I'm assuming he just didn't even want to like, scrounged her food anymore.

Um, yeah. Yeah. I think he just probably just faded away, you know? And, uh, uh, it's just, uh, Yeah. Which is what we see at the beginning of the movie, of course. Where he fades away and that part of the movie as well. And, uh, yeah, it's, um, oh, you know what? I forgot about that too. Remember in the, in the tin that he has with him mm-hmm.

um, it has, um, uh, his sister's ashes in them. I forgot about that.

Austin Lugo: Yes. Yeah. He puts his sister's ashes in the, the tin can to represen. Of course a better time, a sweeter time, right When even when everything's going wrong, you always have the candies to make things better. But yeah, but then he dies just like her.

He dies and then that's, that's it. ,

Andrew Harp: right? Well, you get that really great moment in the end, right where they are sitting on a bench. And there's the two of them, it's their ghosts probably, and she falls asleep on his lap. And then you have that great final shot where it pans up and they're sitting on the bench and they're looking at the, um, modern Japan.

Right, like with the Yeah. Ice scrapers, you know, uh, which is a great ending. . Uh, I think it says so much in that ending where it's kind of, you know, right. It's kind of saying, , you know, the creation and development of modern Japan. Like it didn't just happen on its own, right? It happened after, right? A, it happened right after kids died, like just straight up like little kids died.

Um, with really no help from anyone. Um, uh, just through things that, you know, could have been prevented, like, you know, disease and malnutrition. And that's why I think it's like showing modern Japan, you know, it's, it, it's kind of, you could look at it in a negative or positive light. You could look at it positively.

Like, look at what we did. We were able to, you know, overcome this horrible time in our history, and now we have awesome cities and we're doing really well. Or you could look at it like, you know, j Japanese, you know, skyscrapers, cities, you know, they're amazing. But, but like, never forget, like underneath them all.

Essentially, you know, the bones of, you know, children that died during the war. Um, and you know, I think also the movie too does a good job at kind of like telling the story of how the war sort of can com basically erase an entire family, right? Mm-hmm. both parents and the kids, you know, it's not just schul with, in the case of the Japanese at this time, it wasn't just so, um, you.

Soldiers. Soldiers. Yeah. It's mm-hmm. . It's whole families were decimated. Yeah. It's the

Austin Lugo: mythology of an entire history being decimated. Being destroyed, being erased. And this last moment is bittersweet because it's simultaneously suggesting that. Because of that pain and suffering, we were able to build this new Japan, this new world, this new history.

But we can't forget what this was built on, why this was built. Yeah. Right. These are the ghosts of our past and all of those who passed away. Children, women, men, those who fought, and those who. It's all here because of that. And we can't forget that. Like it's great that we're moving on and building a, a new, bigger, better city.

Yeah. But we have to also remember that our ancestors are always watching us.

Andrew Harp: Yep. And that's pretty much the idea for sure. In the, in the final bit. And, um, I don't think it's a, I don't think it's a super nationalistic movie. It's a little nationalistic, right? It's very anti-American. It's probably the most anti-American JI movie.

just straight up like Yeah. . Yeah. Like literally the villains are the Americans in the movie. Like Yeah. Cuz it's just, it's an historical, you know,

Austin Lugo: fiction. It's

Andrew Harp: an historical film. Um, yeah. And yeah. Yeah. And, um, but I don't know, I didn't think it was too, some people might think like, oh, you know, because, you know, Japan was like a, you know, fascist state at the time and, you know, they, you know, uh, but.

You know, it does what it should do, where it focuses in on two kids, and that's it. Pretty much, you know, it doesn't, uh, concern itself. It's just completely concerned with the people, children who I would say obviously are innocent children. Um, and what, how it affected them. How the war, how the bombings affected them.

It zooms in on that relationship, which is really what a movie like this should do.

Austin Lugo: Absolutely. It makes the micro macro and I think it's important to also note, while the Americans are certainly a villain in this, there are plenty of adults, and I would argue mostly adults in this film aren't doing, adults are evil.

Much of a better job. .

Andrew Harp: Well, I wouldn't say they're, I wouldn't say the Japanese adults in the movie are evil. They're just, I dunno. They just, I guess they've all just kind of forgotten what's important, right? Mm-hmm. . Absolutely. Um, yeah.

Austin Lugo: Well, Andrew, final

Andrew Harp: thoughts? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. Um, you know, it definitely, I think it stays true to its reputation, you know, as a very, very, um, just powerful, impactful war movie.

Um, it's just a good historical fiction, like I said, that, you know, that relationship between the two siblings is a great story. Um, I think they're both very well-written kids. . Um, and the movie does what it should do, where it's frustrating, it's, um, violent, but in a realistic way. It's not really like pessimistic or optimistic.

It's more just kind of like, this is just it, you know? Like this is how it was, um, for the most part. And, you know, in terms of the. Just the animation aspect, the art aspect, the look of the movie. I mean, I don't know if I would change anything about that in that regard. You know, destroyed villages look amazing, but not destroyed.

Villages also look really great, , you know, this is just like a really solid piece of, you know, Japanese historical fiction. And, uh, it's definitely high tier JI for sure. Mm-hmm. , so I'm give it a very, very strong, very high, eight out of 10.

Austin Lugo: A very powerful film, and it's animation and it's sound design and the score, and the story and the plot.

I'm blown away by every second of it and looking back on it, I'm even more touched by all of these powerful moments in a rather short film. It just feels. Like everything's the way it's supposed to be, and it never feels melo dramatic, which I think is something that can happen far too often in these war type films, right?

Often it can feel as if the writer or director or filmmaker is pulling on heartstrings merely to pull on heartstrings just to get an effect out of people, and I don't think this does that at any moment every. Painful moment in this film feels very authentic, very real. And it's certainly not an easy movie to watch.

Very challenging film, but I think in the best of ways. So I'm gonna give this movie a nine outta 10. Very well. Alright, y'all, thank you for listening. You can find everything I do at Austin Lago 12. You can find me on

Andrew Harp: letter boxed. Sorry, wait one second. I forgot my, my letter box name. Just. What the hell

Austin Lugo: is wrong with me?

What do you mean you forgot? You say it's the same thing every time.

Andrew Harp: I know. I don't understand . Sorry. Let me start over. You can find me at letterbox at retro Andrew, r e t r zero Andrew. And

Austin Lugo: you can find this podcast wherever you hear podcast. You can also find us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at theater 42 or with nothing to say.

And thank you all for listening. Thank.